quote:

Originally posted by Mike Ference:
Would you attend a webinar on Troubleshooting Fluid Power Systems?

Can be very interesting.
Who is going to conduct it ?

Nahum;

What are your thoughts on how many persons in an Industrial facility that work on and are the designted persons responsible for specifying Fluid Power equipment have enough traiing and experience to do the "Watch," "Listen," "Understand" (Read a Schematic) process required??

I find most companies in the States are grossly lacking in persons that can even come close to handling any Fluid Power equipment circuit design or trouble shooting. At least in the limited area I cover.

I also see this in the types of questions on the Fluid Power Forums and the very few knowledgeable responses to those questions. But, look at one of the Electrical Forums and notice the vast difference in post's and responses.

quote:

Originally posted by Bud T:
Nahum;

What are your thoughts on how many persons in an Industrial facility that work on and are the designted persons responsible for specifying Fluid Power equipment have enough traiing and experience to do the "Watch," "Listen," "Understand" (Read a Schematic) process required??

I find most companies in the States are grossly lacking in persons that can even come close to handling any Fluid Power equipment circuit design or trouble shooting. At least in the limited area I cover.

I also see this in the types of questions on the Fluid Power Forums and the very few knowledgeable responses to those questions. But, look at one of the Electrical Forums and notice the vast difference in post's and responses.

Bud ,
My feelings are the same but I tried to be polite. I know that there are only a few members that are able to ["Watch," "Listen," "Understand" (Read a Schematic)]. It is correct for hydraulics , pneumatics , electronics and more.
This is our"market" by choice and ,at least for me, it is to late to change.

for more trouble shooting technics visit: http://www.macromindtechnologies.com

quote:

Originally posted by Rajendra:
for more trouble shooting technics visit: http://www.macromindtechnologies.com

Nothing about trouble shooting in this web site.
Read it carefully at first !!!!!!!!!!!!

An interesting site for beginners including formulas
http://www.hydraulic-systems.com/pages/ref_main.htm

Nahum;

I read something on this site that doesn't sound like accurate diagnostics when trouble shooting a pump problem.

http://www.hydraulic-systems.com/pages/ref_trouble2.htm

It has been my experience that a pump that is worn and bypassing internally will continue to open the Relief Valve on down to very low flow.

I always apply a Flow Meter to this test to make sure the pressure test is at or near rated flow.

Testing a pump by readnig pressure only can be a fooler and prolong the trouble shooting situation.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bud T,

quote:

Originally posted by Bud T:
Nahum;

I read something on this site that doesn't sound like accurate diagnostics when trouble shooting a pump problem.

http://www.hydraulic-systems.com/pages/ref_trouble2.htm

It has been my experience that a pump that is worn and bypassing internally will continue to open the Relief Valve on down to very low flow.

I always apply a Flow Meter to this test to make sure the pressure test is at or near rated flow.

Testing a pump by readnig pressure only can be a fooler and prolong the trouble shooting situation.

Sorry , I was not patient and did not had the time to read it all.
Any way it is better then registering for $50 .

Mike,

Here is a response you are not going to want to hear. It is not that your idea of a hydraulic troubleshooting class is not good, but that if you pack 40-45 people in the class you would be lucky to find one person that has the natural instinct to become a good troubleshooter. It is not just knowing and reading schematics that is required, but a logical mind and some laziness. People that are good troubleshooters do not want to do any more work than they have to solve the problem, so they use their skills in their head or on paper to solve problems.

Most people are not logical but rather emotional when it comes to solving problems. Some of the posts are correct in what they say, however it is very hard to make a troubleshooter out of every person that wants to be one. I have had better luck with electrical people than mechanics in making a troubleshooter. Mechanics take great pride in having the biggest toolbox with the most tools, as they are geared towards search and destroy by taking things apart. Electrical people are geared towards using an electrical schematic because that is the fastest and easiest way to find the problem.

Moreover, even some of them do not use logic as well as they could in troubleshooting. The idea of a class is fine, but who is going to weed out the 39 out of 40 people attending that will never have the skills of logic to do troubleshooting? You are under the false impression that anybody can be trained in anything, which is simply not true.

EdAllen came the closest to the answer, however being an old Navy person I went through that course and what he did not mention was the success rate was very low. The ones that flunked out of that course we made aircraft pilots or cooks out of them, something a little simpler for them to do. Pilots fly with emotion and adrenalin and cooks, well they just cook.

It is amazing to me that Hydraulics & Pneumatics never says, look it takes time to learn a craft, this search for I want a computer program to design circuits so I do not have to think and know anything or give me a class for a day or two so I can be an expert simply does not work. This fast track to hydraulic knowledge is producing some very scary people in this industry.

Gary wrote:

quote:

It is amazing to me that Hydraulics & Pneumatics never says, look it takes time to learn a craft, this search for I want a computer program to design circuits so I do not have to think and know anything or give me a class for a day or two so I can be an expert simply does not work. This fast track to hydraulic knowledge is producing some very scary people in this industry.

It almost?????? sounds like you think there might be a need for some Trained, Dedicated Fluid Power persons in this great industrial world we live in. Correct me if I read you wrong.

Bud,
Yes, you need corrected. Why would you produce 10,000 Hydraulic Engineer drones when nobody is going to hire them? Only the top 1% of the market in applications and clients will hire a professional and pay him to do design work.

Most companies will go for the free design or let some salesperson hunt and peck around until he gets it close to being right.

There is no market for your drones and nobody is going to pay them? The Hydraulic Fluid Power card also produced drones that nobody wanted and turned into a joke. Just because you want to produce these drones does not mean you can create a market for them.

In a perfect world these drones would be nice to have, but in the real world, nobody will pay for the time and trouble it would cost to make them.
Sorry Bud, close but no cookie?

Bud,
I just read in the general section about more flow dividers, Peter’s favorite component.
I did not read any post stating they want to pay one of your drones to get the correct answer.

It appears that the biggest users of free engineering and the hunt and peck approach is the very same people presenting themselves as fluid power designers.

Most of the reply’s are correct, this person is well down the road in producing the most efficient hot oil machine that can be made, I pity the poor client who is going to buy this idea.

PS- just checked it again (the post), and see a call for one of your drones (expert), now let’s see if somebody wants to pay the big bucks to get the correct answer. I think somebody needs to call Peter, he knows a lot about flow dividers, ha, ha.

Troubleshooting has been the most popular session at our Fluid Power Conference & Expo. Plan to attend in Milwaukee in May.