There seems to be a lot of pent-up frustration lately about fluid power’s future and how we should be training our people. We’ve had a pretty serious discussion on all of this at our Fluid Power Forums. I’ve also received some emails on the topic and seen similar threads elsewhere on the Internet.

One of the basic questions is: Will we ever truly have “Fluid Power Engineers?” Is it enough to simply give someone a week-long class or two and proclaim them the company’s fluid power expert? We can’t continue this way and keep fluid power growing.
A recent quick poll conducted on our website asked the question, “What’s the primary way that you learned about fluid power?” The responses were as follows:

* On the job/from co-workers: 34%
* Reading up on it myself: 27%
* Short courses/seminars: 11%
* In college: 28%

Do you find it a concern that so little of our technology is really taught at the university level? I certainly do. Some sort of industrial fluid power degree is really the only sensible solution. In this age of increased electrical control and integrated systems that encompass fluid power, mechanical systems, and electrical devices, fluid power stands a chance of getting lost in the mix. How can we continue to treat fluid power as an add-on to a mechanical engineering degree, or something that can simply be picked up on the job?

A concerned reader recently pointed me to a post on a fluid power site. There, someone had asked how they could learn more about fluid power. The majority of the response was that the person should contact their component supplier, basically passing the buck. Is that sound advice, letting someone else worry about the technical details of your system? It’s the ultimate in outsourcing, and a sorry habit that far too many companies have fallen into.

So, what should be done? I’d like to see the Fluid Power Society, NFPA, and the universities from the new NSF-funded Engineering Research Center form a study group to push for a new fluid power degree at the university level — I’ll certainly volunteer my time to the cause, too.

We have a starting point in the one-week classes that some universities and manufacturers provide, not to mention the fluid power certification classes and exams already offered. I think we need users, OEMs, component manufacturers, and educators all to get together and figure out a solution that best serves our industry.

Do you agree? Disagree? Is there a better solution, or is all of this impossible to achieve? Let me know what you think, so we can start a dialogue on the future direction of fluid power.

Paul J. Heney
senior editor
pheney@penton.com

Then there is the other 98% of Fluid Power to be considered also Peter.

The mundane everyday circuits that cause so much trouble because halfway works so why worry about doing it right.

The circuits that are being replaced by any and every other way of doing the job by TRAINED persons who understand the discipline they are TRAINED to implement.

In your primary field of Proportional and Servo valve applications, How would youu like to see an M.E. be responsible for designing these circuits once every two to three years???? Do you think they would be proficient????

And, once every two to three years is not unusual in my part of the country it is the norm. Even Bang-Bang circuits do'nt come up real often at most companies.

However, as you point out, most companies cannot afford to hire a full time Fluid Power expert so what is the next best approach?

Depending on he Fluid Power Distributor works most of the time but can be far from best in a lot of applications. Who trains them to design Fluid Power circuits? Who checks their design and choice of components?

Did you notice the answers to the poll on where people learned about how to implement Fluid Power? Pretty scary to me for one and probably s to many.

At last these forums are pointing out some problem areas, so there might be an answer to what I call a Dilemna in the future.

Peter wrote;

quote:

But you don't need a engineering degree to do that. (Design Bang-Bang Circuits?) A trade school or apprenticeship program will do

That is exactly how Fluid Power has been handled for all its life and you can see where that has led!!!!!

Peter, I can tell you how to do pictures, like I did on one of my threads, first thing to do is get a free account at a image hosting site I use photobucket.com they claim to have free video hosting also, haven't done that yet.
The success stories forum sounds like a good idea, get a hold of the forum owner and ask if they will set it up.

Peter, I think the success stories idea is a great one. Why don't we start it off as a topic in the System Design subforum ... if there is enough interest/posting there, we can certainly create a whole new subforum for that, a little bit down the proverbial road.

To post pictures, when you're typing in the window that pops up for new posts or replies, there is a hotlink that says, "Add Attachment?" right below the window for your text. I believe you can only add PDFs, jpegs, and maybe word files. For videos, you'd need to put them on your own site and put a link in your message.

Also, for some odd reason, this forum program only allows you to post one image per post. So, if you've got 5 pictures, you'll need to add the first picture, and then do 4 replies to yourself, each with a photo. Annoying, I know, but they tell me that's just the way this is set up!

Peter and Paul, there is also a image link button in the reply window toolbar, first from the left it is right next to the envelope (email address) button.

Peter wrote;

quote:

The company that is installing these actuators has at least three people that are dedicated to the design and installation of the hydraulics.

Well and good for the installer, how about the end user? Who in the end user company will maintain or if necessary upgrade the controllers and what they control????

"The company that is installing these actuators has at least three people that are dedicated to the design and installation of the hydraulics. They are out there. There isn't enough but there are more than you think."

I undestand the OEM's often have Fluid Power Engineers but they are busy with new equipment not taki=king care of problems in the End Users plant. However several OEM's in my area do not have on staff Fluid Power persons.

"To be honest, I think that the major OEMs ( Parker, Bosch, Vicker, Atos, HR Textron etc ) could get by with just one hydraulic engineer that can design the really difficult systems and support the distributors. This one engineer would be able to model the system using the math techniques I described above. There are hydraulic simulation packages that do this already. We use 20Sim. It cost us about $3500."

They have engineers on staff already but that is a poor fix for the real problem. owever, I don't think the manufacturers will be pushing for End User Fluid Power Engineers either.

"Bud, I think the hydraulic world is getting more hi tech and you don't see it. You just see the log splitter and back hoe posts by the individuals that are clueless."

I agree some are but the vast majority are "clueless" as you say. That is evident by the post' you mention and the lack of post's from End Users of Fluid Power equipment.

On the "Suess Story" thing, MAKE SURE TH COMPANY YOU DESIGNED THe CIrCUIT FOR IS AWARE AND WILLING TO HAVE THEIR PROPRIETARY EQUIPMENT SPREAD OVER THE INTERET. I have found many companies to be less than excited about their grand ideas being touted for their competitors to see. Even if it is your design I believe you can get into hot water if the End User wants to take you on. I have been given an OK on only a few of these type circuits for articles in the past.

Interesting site Peter. I know it means a lot to you, However, on 99.9% of the circuits I'm involved with it will never be of use.

If or when I get into one of these circuits you or someone with your expertise will be the second one to know about. I am not the least bit bothered when I have to tell a customer I don't know but I know someone who can do the work.

On another note check out my next post that follows along the way this thread started.

Would you believe a PHD In Fluid Power??????

I received an email from a person in Italy who noted he has one.

Maybe the EU has realized something the States are behind on.

I've asked him to weigh in on this forum if he was willing, and to offer feedback on the programs there.

Hello Paul,

My opinion is that accredited engineering colleges and universities should offer a fluid power engineering option to their mechanical and aeronautical engineering,bacheior of science degrees. The option should include fluid power system design and application along with electrical control system design commonly used in fluid power circuits. The courses should be more hardware orientated rather than theorical.

Most engineering colleges and universities offer their mechanical engineerung students specialty options in the senior year such
as machine or mechanical design, process piping design, vibration/noise engineering to name but a few. Fluid power design and application should be offered as one the engineering options.

Eugene F. Lucas
glucas16@sbcglobal.nnet

I currently work for a pump drive and gearbox manufacturer. I have worked for, in the past, gear pump and cartridge valve manufacturers. I have worked with many distributors and end-users. One thing we don't have enough of are application engineers. Usually, it is one poor, overworked guy solving the world's fluid power issues. This poor, overworked guy usually stumbled on this field and has no formal training. We either need to clone him or train some people. I am willing to pursue this degree. Where do I sign up?

It's really Sad to Say, Kathy, THERE IS NO PLACE TO SIGN UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In fact if you want a hard time just mention the fact that Industry needs qualified Fluid Power Persons and all you get is Grief.

Why is it that a statement like:

"One thing we don't have enough of are application engineers. Usually, it is one poor, overworked guy solving the world's fluid power issues."

Unfortunately this approach has semi-worked for all the life of Fluid Power and not many want to see a change. Maybe it's "JOB SECURITY" that keeps the Status Quo. I know it surely has helped my tenure as a Consultant.

Thanks to Forums like this there may be changes in the wind but from many of the negative responses it certainly does'nt appear it will be soon, So, you can keep your present job and expect your overworked Application Engineers to be Over Worked until the Electrical Guys figure out ways to COMPLETELY REPLACE Fluid Power.

IS THAT negative OR IS THAT NEGATIVE????????????

If I follow "goto meeting" definition there will be one in June on H&P's web site that will be using the Power Point presentations.

If not please explain "Goto Meetings."

I do have an internet connecton at 100 mbs.

Mr Heney. I am a certified Hydraulics Specialist an have recently submitted a proposal to a local community and technical college to create an Associate of Science degree in Fluid Power Technology. This proposal was fasioned from current cources being taught in other technology programs at this school and eight additional classes that I recommended. I feel this curriculum could easily be adapted and enlarged to provide a bachelors degree. I met with a representative from the school and submitted my ideas in writting back in January but I have yet to get a call back from him. He seemed very positive but was concerned that there was not enough of a job demand in this geographical area to justify the program. I agree that there should be a degree just for Fluid Power and Motion Control and I am willing to help out. Let me know if I can be of assistance. in order to develop this program I studied every program listed in the "Key schools" section of the Fluid Power Societies website. Since I have had 12 years experience in the fluid power industry (mobile) I looked at what I considered each programs strengths and weeknesses. All of these are listed in my proposal. As for expanding the program to a 4 year degree, this could be done. I feel the program should an interdicipline (mechanical, electrical, electronic) program like that currently being taught at Perdue and other universities. Also the program could be a 2 plus 2 engineering technology degree so levels of training may be chosen by the student. The first two years would be basic fluid power and electronics with included sciences and communications and the second half could include more sofisticated motions control like servos, computer programing etc.

Tim;

Keep us posted on your progress with getting a degreed Fluid power program.

Where are you located?

Who will be teaching the Fluid Power classes?

Is it possible o get a copy of the curriculum?

Keep up the good work but don't tell peter.