I don't really believe that a 3 phase motor is anything special, besides being a cheap buy on eBay...

The reason a 3 phase motor does well maintaining torque is because of the enormous amount of rotating mass inside the housing, and just like a Gas Engine with a heavy flywheel it does well maintaining an rpm, but getting there can be taxing.

I have some various electric motors lying around, some 3PH, & 1PH, and an equal power rated 3PH will weigh 3-5 times what the 1PH motor will.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Cyberfool,

I have missed you too.

I am looking at a 2-stage pump from MTE Hydraulics that puts out 11GPM (nominal) & 3000PSI, when direct coupled to a 6HP Gas engine.

I made a mistake earlier when I started saying that my Engine was 5.5HP, it is actually 6.5HP OHV, electric start, nice engine...

Anyways the Pump I am looking at can be found @ http://www.mtehydraulics.com/oemprod_2stagepumps.html and the part # is 21004.

The 9GPM unit would be less demanding on my engine, but the distributor I have located for purchasing the pump skips that part #, and they recomended the 11GPM unit.

I also am looking at a Variable lever-actuated 4 way-3 position Valve, with an "Open" center position which means no shock if I suddenly release the valve rather than gradually releasing it.

My schematic had some errors that I have corrected, like the HP of the engine, and I had the wrong tire size listed for the rear tire.

With these new components the calculator I found on a diff. page in this forum, comes up between 215-264 max. RPM from my Hyd. Motor.

With the drive wheel covering a mile in 684 rev's, 215RPM = 18.86MPH, 264RPM = 23.27MPH.

Boy my reply looks awkward without maglub's post above mine... Did you delete it after I got the e-mail?

Here it is, & I quote:
Author Topic: Hydraulic hybrids on the horizon
maglub Posted 06 March 2009 06:39 PM

How are you cyberfool... I been hoping you can share your very sharp mind... I always smile whenever I see your einstein

quote:

My friend I am not sure the difference between the engine HP and the HP we use in hydraulics... I am sure almost simmilar

Here is a link to a formula page for Hydraulics. Take a look at the chart about 2 PgDn clicks and look at the note on "Horsepower to drive a Pump." This is what I've always used when going from Electric to Engine drive for a hydraulic pump.

quote:

Originally posted by maglub:
Sorry, I was ashamed since you did not reply too soon... I thought you did did not like my posting(besides I included Peter) ... but honestly your are fun to talk with ... no matter what.

Good luck amigo!!! Have fun...I am your fan

I'm touched, really.

I included the link to the manufacturers web-site...

I have been talking with a local Hydraulics designer/fabricator, and when I showed him the 2-stage pump his concern was a pressure drop (to an actual output of 857psi), not volume, of course I had not found the manufacturers site yet, and the retail distributor did not have enough information.

Here are some calculations I did:

ON http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulic.htm there is a calculator, using the specs of the pump, and my known displacement on the Eaton Motor here are the results:
Hydraulic Motor Speed
1. Enter Pump Flow 11 (GPM)
2. Enter Motor Displacement 9.6 (cubic inches)

Motor RPM 264.69(RPM)
------------------------------------------------
Hydraulic Motor Torque
1. Enter Motor Displacement 9.6 (cubic inches)
2. Enter System Pressure 3000 (PSI)

Motor Torque Output 4585.99(in/lbs)
------------------------------------------------
And then with the lower pressure the local Guy stated 857PSI;
Hydraulic Motor Torque
1. Enter Motor Displacement 9.6 (cubic inches)
2. Enter System Pressure 857 (PSI)

Motor Torque Output 1310.06(in/lbs)
I rounded off the results at 2 after the decimal point.

P.S. The 9GPM 2-stage listed on MTE's site might be substantially less demand on my Engine, than the 11GPM unit, and would still spin my Eaton Motor @ 216.56RPM max. minus any losses through the valves, and such.

MTE's recommendations for HP to drive their pumps include Gasoline, OR A/C electric, they do not specify a "3-phase".
---------------------------------------------

Another concern my local guy had about the pump was what is the internal relief set at? Is it adjustable?

Well I know I'm a novice, but the relief valve is a screw-in unit, visible in the picture, and since claims have been made about its flexibility I imagine it is adjustable, even if you have to remove it, and replace a different sized spring or something...

Any other question, please check out MTE's site first. Thanks

http://www.mtehydraulics.com/oemprod_2stagepumps.html

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Cyberfool,

1st is IMO = in my opinion?
2nd No, I haven't purchased the pump, or valve yet.

OK, remember the calculator I got here on another forum?
Well not only does the site offer the calculator, THEY Sell stuff.

They have a 2-stage pump, with a LOT more details listed, their cheap 11GPm unit: http://www.surpluscenter.com/i...11&catname=hydraulic

But if I am understanding you correctly, you are saying no matter what I do, I will only produce 850PSI+/- no matter which pump I use? Is that right?

If that is right, to get the GPM I need, will I have to look at even bigger pumps, or will I get the flow, but not the pressures that the site's are saying?

Because pressure is what I need to get rolling, for torque, but once I start moving I need GPM to reach My desired speed, more than the pressure.

An Electronics analogy, a field which I have had some training, Voltage is described as pressure, and Current is described as flow. So if you have a Garden hose with a Sprayer Nozzle on it, if you open the Sprayer, and water shoots out, you have demonstrated Voltage, & Current. Voltage=Pressure Current=Flow

Now, if you are on the City's water supply You are pretty much guaranteed the pressure (Voltage) is going to remain constant, if you are able to hit your Neighbor in the Head, with the maximum Spray from your Nozzle, you can keep Spraying Him for hours, until he rolls up His Blanket, and takes His speedo wearing butt indoors.
If you have your own well-pump, and it is weak, you can only Spray Him for a minute, then as you are Spraying the stream will rise, and fall as the Pump struggles to keep up, and your Neighbor will just be sitting there laughing, because you can't hit him anymore.


The Failure in this case is Pressure, which led to a drop in Flow.

(I Had a Gif of a fat cartoon guy in a speedo dancing, but I can't find it... Oh, there it is)


Anyways, checkout the specs on the pump from the 2nd distributor, see what you think, oh and the Valve I was looking at can be found here: http://stores.daltonhydraulic....Hydraulic/Detail.bok

Click on "Instruction Sheet" under downloads, to be taken to new a window with a PDF document showing a sample circuit.

Later.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Cyberfool,

I don't really WANT 3000 psi...

I want pressure to get rolling (starting torque) but once it starts rolling I want to reach my cruising speed.

With a desired 250RPM on a 9.6 cuin/rev. Motor. The better the pressure, the faster I will reach the top speed, but what I really need is volume.

If I find a smaller displacement Motor I will likely make figuring out the rest easy, but for now I am mostly looking at the 2-stage pump, because it will not stall the Engine, and yet is 20% the cost of a variable displacement pump (not to mention the weight savings).

OH, and the "Pressure Washer" pump I mentioned I have a few days ago, is a pressure monster, but crap for flow.

I went back to Eaton's site today, and even though they don't list exact specs related to My Hyd. Motor's #, 146-1264-002, they do have a lot of General information now that I know it's displacement.

The 9.6 in3/REV category of "R" type Geroler's are only rated for 1800 PSI continuous/2400 PSI intermittent(10%), & 15GPM/20GPM int.

But @ 1800 psi/15 GPM the Motor's torque #'s are astounding, 2,378 in. pounds (that's 198 Foot Pounds!) continuous, & 338 RPM.

That's more torque than most Cars on the road today, about half the torque of My 1969 Lincoln, with a 460ci. 365HP Engine.

So unless I want to look at the clouds all day while I'm riding my project, YEAH I want lower pressure #'s at least at the higher flow #'s.

FYI 338 RPM would equate to about 30 MPH with my drive wheel, it would be nice once in awhile to go that fast, but that would require 15 GPM, I'd need a much bigger engine for that...

A small motor that has my interest right this second is: "Parker Hydraulic motor. The motor is marked MZG2AR140S1"

Parker Motor on eBay

It is ending in less than 2 hours on eBay if you have any idea what it's displacement is, get back to me ASAP, I have been on Parker's site for 3 hours I can not find any information on it...

quote:

Originally posted by R Deinla:
Cyberfool,

Can you provide some info about the average torque of a car, and average gearbox(input to gearbox) RPM. I am trying to find out the shaft torque and rpm output of a piston motor. I am thinking about whether the hydraulic HP will be almost equal to the engine HP of a particular car model.

Thanx...

What Car? I personally have a '94 Geo Metro with a 1L engine, and a '69 Lincoln with a 7.5L engine, they are not even comparable on torque figures.

So what displacement is Your engine? Make? Weight of the Car?

If you know the above questions there is a wealth of information online about them, google your Car, and look for spec's from sites like "Chilton" they are a company that makes service manuals on cars, and light trucks.

They also include stats. like HP/Torque ratings even if they are just the figures provided by the manufacturer.

OH, and HP is HP...

A Horse is a Horse, of course, of Course (old song lyric) from "Mr. Ed".

BTW a strange phenomenon with internal combustion Engines, HP & Torque #'s always match each other @ 5252 RPM, Weird, huh?

This is a physics thing it doesn't matter what the displacement of the Engine is, or what the "peak" HP is.

quote:

Hydraulic hybrids on the horizon

Thanks for posting this. HHV tech is perfect for garbage, postal and delivery trucks, which make frequent stops.


________________________________________________


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This message has been edited. Last edited by: andrew45611,