Get the best fluid power practice through
MSOE professional fluid power and motion control seminars
http://www.msoe.edu/seminars/

Dt. Khalil;

Have you seen my training books on the Home Page of this Forum at the Ebook Link?

I'm not sure what text you are using but these may be of interest to your Faculty.

http://www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/200/eBooks/

I have a third book I used for teaching a trouble shooting class called "Trouble Shooting Industrial Hydraulics" that follows a system I've heard the IRS uses to train their Agents to spot Counterfeit Money. I understand they have the trainee's study nothing but real money until they know it so well that bogus money stands out quickly.

To that end, about 70% of the book is on how components and circuits should work with the remainder diagnosing basic circuits that have wrong components or other defects. A written explanation of how the circuit was designed to perform is given along with what is happening at present.

At a local ALCOA plant I use circuits from actual machines in the plant that I have made training books for in te past.

The books are in a 3-ring binder so additions can be made for special eqipment or other ideas from each instructor.

Send your email address to fluidpower100@gmail.com and I can send brochures for each book in .pdf format that you can print on a color printer to see content and price.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Medhat Khalil:
Get the best fluid power practice through
MSOE professional fluid power and motion control seminars
http://www.msoe.edu/seminars/

How many people attend these each year.
I was at the IFPE show and saw a handful of enthusiastic students there. How many students graduate with a degree in hydraulics or does one get a mechanical technology or mechatronics degree instead? How many hour of hydraulics are required to get a degree?

For the rest of you. Who has taken these classes?

Bud, it looks to me like training is available if you want it.

WOW!!!!! Peter one school. And a 3-Day Seminar at that. The attendees will be after your job when they finish.

I bet the Electrical and Mechanical Field of Endeavor have one or two more schools that that! (per State even not the whole U.S.) Probably their courses are a little more etensive also.

You still have'nt convinced me that there is no need for a Fluid Power Engineer Title with all the training that would involve.

Peter;

The Electrical Apprentices at a locl plant get 64 hoours of Fluid Power Basics.

The Mechanicl Apprenties get two 64 hour classes. Basics plus a Trouble Shooting class.

Thanks for the offer. I have tons of educational resources

Dr. Khalil;

I'm sure you have read my post's on the need for Trained/Dedicated Fluid Power Persons. What are your thoughts on having Trained/Dedicated Fluid Power Engineers and Maintenance Persons?

Dr. Khalil;
From a short look on the MSOEweb site I could not find an agenda for the Seminar you offered on your first post.

Could you poat a link to an agenda for the training?

seek the fluid power institute at milwaukee school of engineering. Our graduates are very well educated and trained
Thanks

http://www.msoe.edu/wp/seminars/schedule.shtml

Dr. Khalil;

This is the information I was looking for:
http://www.msoe.edu/dotAsset/112505.pdf

A lot of training for only $9.000.00 plus Travel and Living Expenses.

MSOE has one of the best schools for hydraulic training. I know they have over 10 of our motion controllers in their labs or show displays.

However, I have never seen one of the graduates use one of our controllers once they are out of school. Either the new graduates are snapped up by big companies or they go into other fields.

Notice that the MSOE classes are for engineers and there are few engineers that visit this forum.

I don't think the cost is too high. The cost of ignorance is much higher.

quote:

MSOE has one of the best schools for hydraulic training.

Peter, can you name some other schools that are as good as MSOE or almost as good?

"Either the new graduates are snapped up by big companies or they go into other fields."

Where would they apply for a job in Fluid Power? I believe a lot of them wind up at the Fluid Power manufacturers in the Engineering Department or at their Distributors as Salesman.

"Notice that the MSOE classes are for engineers and there are few engineers that visit this forum."

Now isn't that odd Peter? You would expect these TRAINED persons to give great answers the same as you see the Electrical types on the Electrical Forums. Then, it's possible they might have some questions also like the Electrical types do on their forums.

"I don't think the cost is too high. The cost of ignorance is much higher."

If you add all the days up for all the courses it comes to 25. Some of these are half days, but I counted them all as full Days. That is 200 Hours of training at $9,000.00 which is only $45.00/Hour per person. However, the company that sent them has to pay travel and living epenses on top of losing their input to their normal job.

However, a Mechanically savvy person can hire in at a Fluid Power Distributor and get paid while going through the old College of Hard Knocks Training that most in the Fluid Power field did to learn the trade.

I bet you have sent all your Engineers and Maintenance persons to some or all the classes.

I guess you can tell I'm not convinced that the way Fluid Power implementation is handled at present is the way to go.

quote:

Originally posted by Bud T:

quote:

MSOE has one of the best schools for hydraulic training.

Peter, can you name some other schools that are as good as MSOE or almost as good?

I don't know. I have only been to a couple of schools. A lot depends on the instructors and I haven't met many. Except a few a MSOE instructors at the IFPE show.

Spokane community college ( Spokane Washington ) has one of the best labs in the US. It may be better than MSOE's. I saw it a few years ago. Very clean and nice. My thoughts were about where will they find the students to take advantage of the lab. A lot of the students go into making forestry and saw mill equipment.

I know Purdue has a lab but I doubt it would rival MSOE's or Spokane Community Colleges's lab.

Parker has their HSE training. This training is good for practical knowledge but only 15 a year get trained. The problem I have with that class is that most attendees are there so the distributor they work for will get a discount.
I believe that Kevinj said he attended one of those Parker HSE trainings.

I am sure that Vickers and Bosch Rexroth have their own training classes.

There is a Alexandria Technical College in Minneapolis MN
http://web.alextech.edu/program/Default2.aspx?pid=740
There is a Dr Ryan there that is trying to write some specifications for motion control certification for the NFPA. My concern is that it covers the right stuff. There is a committee that is working on the certification requirements. The problem I have is the I doubt the committee members really have the experience. There is a Parker HSE in Minneapolis that I am sure has install more servo hydraulic actuators than all the members of the committee but the Parker HSE is NOT on the committee.

quote:

"Either the new graduates are snapped up by big companies or they go into other fields."

Where would they apply for a job in Fluid Power? I believe a lot of them wind up at the Fluid Power manufacturers in the Engineering Department or at their Distributors as Salesman.

I wouldn't spend four years of my life and come out of college with $40K of dept just to do that.

quote:

"Notice that the MSOE classes are for engineers and there are few engineers that visit this forum."

Now isn't that odd Peter? You would expect these TRAINED persons to give great answers the same as you see the Electrical types on the Electrical Forums. Then, it's possible they might have some questions also like the Electrical types do on their forums.

Why does anybody want to waste time here talking about log splitters?

I posted an equation about how the pressure changes in a cylinder and no one even questions it. No one here wants to learn. This forum is just a place where people ask questions and leave. The PLC forums have people that have contributed for years. I know where many work. I have met some at trade shows. Some are customers that I have trained or have been trained at Delta.
I can't say that about the people here.

quote:

I bet you have sent all your Engineers and Maintenance persons to some or all the classes.

Those that go to class teach the others here. We don't have maintenance people here.

quote:

I guess you can tell I'm not convinced that t
he way Fluid Power implementation is handled at present is the way to go.

Stop whining.

We sell enough controllers each year to control many thousands of hydraulic actuators and motors. Most are installed and running with little or no problem. Think of all the servo valves, pumps, actuators, accumulators that get sold along with the controllers. That is a lot. In your world you don't see all the things that can be done. You see this pitiful forum with its pitiful questions. In my world there are some amazing things being done. Much I can't post here because each of the customers think they have something unique and don't want to share their success stories. I have an e-mail folder full of success stories and 'atta boys'.

It is too bad that you can't see all the good that is being done.

Do a google search for "university hydraulic"

"You see this pitiful forum with its pitiful questions."

I couldn't have said it better Peter. In fact that is exactly what I've been referring to for several years.

Happy to see you are getting the picture of the real world of Fluid Power on this Forum, Check out the other three Fluid Power Forums and you will find the same "Pitiful Questions" over and over again. Actually nothing has changed except the Questioners name. But. think of all the great Log Splitter circuits that are now running so well due to the great feedback.

I still believe that will change when there are TRAINED/DEDICATED Fluid Power persons that won't live with the mundane and work at bringing Fluid Power out of your "Pitiful Question" state.

When it takes a lot more than ONE PARAGRAPH to name all the places that are teaching Fluid Power on any level of true Academia. When Fluid Power is recognized as something besides that LEAKY, HOT, NOISY system that all the TRAINED persons are staying away from in DROVES.

There are more places in Podunk Evansville, Indiana that teach Electrical Systems than you named for all of Fluid Power. That is if you drop the Manufacturers offerings.

Oh well, Someday maybe???????????