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Trouble shooting a hydrostatic pump
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Darcy
posted
We have a BPV35R I belive that Linde made it. I was wondering what the best way to trouble shoot this system would be. Is it with a flow test and if it is I see no case drain lines they go into a manifold block both retun and pressure then they smaller lines go into a directional control valve. What would be the best way to check for pump wear we are getting alot of heat out of it. We check and cleaned the heat exchanger out dint help and changed filters out. Found metal in the filter but not sure if it is from another pump that was on it or not. Want to check for bypass before it is changed. Let me know.

Thanks
 
Posts: 12 | Location: Washington state | Registered: 04 March 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bourdon
Picture of Bud T
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Shut the system down and let it cool to ambient temperature.

Start it up and check which coomponent heats up first. The safest way to do this is with a hand held Heat Reading instrument. The energy wasting component will heat up first and will most likely be easy to detect.


Bud Trinkel
FP Consultant Retired
"It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world. "Thomas Jefferson"
 
Posts: 1761 | Location: Newburgh, Indiana | Registered: 07 October 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Darcy
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Great thanks very much I will check to see what happens.
 
Posts: 12 | Location: Washington state | Registered: 04 March 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Darcy
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Well what I found was i started it up and ran the rolls there is 8 all belt driven they are for a planer infeed. The charge pump didnt heat up and the case drain was about 85 after about 5 minutes. The crossport relief valve never heated up ethier I found that the pressure line was very hot about 135 and the retunr was running about 140 and the motor the pump was running was 156 The line to the coooler that comes out of the block vavle that all the lines go into pressure and return lines was also very hot. It also had a line for the heat exchanger coming out of it it was only about 68 degrees thought it was a bit cool. Anyways I traced it back to that block not sure what it is called I think mabye the shuttle valve let me know if you know. It had the pressure gauge on it and 2 cartrigr ajustments one was for pressure let me know if somone knows. I replaced the valve and after a hour and a half under a load the tempture was bout 128 on the motor the block was about 101 and the pressure line was 108 and return was 112. I hope it works and dont heat up any more let me know if somone knows what the block was that these went into.

Thanks
 
Posts: 12 | Location: Washington state | Registered: 04 March 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bernoulli
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Dear Sir:
With all due respect, based upon the nature of your question, one can only conclude that you have absolutely no idea as to what you are doing with the subject hydrostatic transmission.
Tell your supervisor to execute his/her primary responsibility which is to send you to hydraulic school so you can learn to do your job safely.
Many maintenance personnel have been seriously injured, and even killed, because they worked on hydraulic systems by "trial-and-error."
Be warned, if you work on hydraulic systems without the proper training you could get seriously injured or killed.
Please show this warning to your supervisor.
Respectfully,
Rory S. McLaren
Director
Fluid Power Safety Institute
PS To all those who offer advice about service, repair, and troubleshooting hydraulic systems, bear in mind that you are liable for the advice you give - albeit with good intentions.
The best advice you can give people, especially when you do not have any idea as to their educational background, is to get the appropriate training.
 
Posts: 4 | Registered: 07 March 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bourdon
Picture of Bud T
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Rory S. McLaren wrote:

"With all due respect, based upon the nature of your question, one can only conclude that you have absolutely no idea as to what you are doing with the subject hydrostatic transmission."

I find this is typical for 99% of Industrial and Mobile mechanics. However, it is not due to lack of intelligence it is due to lack of training and experience on Fluid Power eqquipment.

Rory's statement above also applies to at least 95% of Mechanical Engineers who are usually responsible for designining the equipment that uses Fluid Power components.

Industry sends Maintenance Mechanics and Mechanical Engineers to seminars on Fluid Power where they learn how a particular manufacturers components function and how to read their catalog but learn little about how these parts are applied in a circuit. Some fortunate persons may get the opportunity to attend some advanced training and actually learn how to apply the equipment in simple circuits.

The problem is they return to their work place and usually don't get the chance to apply their new knowledge so it is soon lost in the archives of their mind.

I've often wondered how the Electrical field would fare under these conditions.

They would be depending on their supplier to design the circuits and often install them, plus anytime a problem came up the same supplier would be called back to fix a problem that could not be remedied in a short time.

I anyone thinks Fluid Power is dangerous try the same methods with electrical equipment.

I have tried for years to convince anyone from the Industrial or Mobile field that they need trained persons whose main responsibility is to design and maintain Fluid Power equipment, so far to no avail. One week, two week, multiple level or otherwise SEMINARS is not the answer. I must say it has been a big part of my income for close to 40 years and shows no signs of slowing down.

Training a person in Fluid Power and snding them home to work on everything but Fluid Power for months afterward is not real smart but it is done on a regular basis when it comes to Fluid Power.

So, Increasedhits, keep asking questions and hopefully receiving answers from knowledgeable persons. As for my personal feelings, I will keep trying to help in any way I can until I get so senile that the answers don't make any sense. I hope someone will speak up when that happens since I probably won't be able to recognize it. (Maybe it has already ahppened??????)

BTW Rory's training site is:

http://www.fpti.org/index.html

In case you are interested in some of his material.

I have not had the opportunity to see any of it but the ad's on his site look excellent.


Bud Trinkel
FP Consultant Retired
"It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world. "Thomas Jefferson"
 
Posts: 1761 | Location: Newburgh, Indiana | Registered: 07 October 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Darcy
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Thanks very much I'm in the process of trying to learn more about it I'm going to a trouble shooting course with GPM hydraulics and trouble shooting in Oregon in a couple weeks hope this may help. There is alot of stuff that I need to know. I do know that for a fact. But it all takes alot of time and as you say you have to get in and do it. i'm a millwright and the problems come sometimes but not all the time. I want to take some more training but it is hard when you have a family and a workplace that wont pay or help with it. I have ran accreoos alot of people in the feild not knowing like hydraulic shops that come out and work on stuff. On in fact stated he has never used a temputure gun to check anything and others there never new about it. Dont sound right from what I hear from what I have done so far it is a very important part finding where the heat starts thats a restricting.

Well thanks
 
Posts: 12 | Location: Washington state | Registered: 04 March 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Darcy
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Rory what would you recomend for learning first if I cant get to one of your workshops I see you offer alot of CDs I would like mabeye next year to get to one of these trainings they look great and have the hands on that I need. I live in Washington state so it will take some doing but I would like to go to one. But in the mean time what would you start with i have looked at the products before and after GPMs work shops that was my next step. I want to learn and go forward in th hydraulic feild safe that is the best.

Thanks let me know
 
Posts: 12 | Location: Washington state | Registered: 04 March 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bourdon
Picture of Bud T
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Increasedhits wrote:

"One in fact stated he has never used a temputure gun to check anything and others there never new about it."

It's not common knowledge that a hydraulic circuit operating in a normal ambient air condition only over heats because of WASTED ENERGY. Most people I come across think all hydraulic circuits have to run hot since most do.

All circuits have up to 15% wasted energy due to inefficiencies in components and losses in plumbing due to normal flow restriction. However this amount of heat can be disipated in a well designed circuit from the oils contact with surfaces in cooontact with ambient air.

I designed a circuit for a local customer without a heat exchanger, I was advised a heat exchanger must be installed, I didn't mind since it was more commission. On installatioon of the unit they did not pipe water to the heat exchanger since I advised it was not necessary.

Two years later the system started over heating on night shift so they ran water to the heat exchanger to cool the system down. Sounded like the right idea but no one asked why it ran cool for two years and now started getting hot. What changed?

After examining the circuit for the heat source a pressure control was fond to be bypassing continually due to erosioon of the seat. When the valve was replaced the circuit cooled down and the water to the heat exchanger was unnecessary.


Bud Trinkel
FP Consultant Retired
"It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world. "Thomas Jefferson"
 
Posts: 1761 | Location: Newburgh, Indiana | Registered: 07 October 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bernoulli
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Let's clear up a few things:
First, and foremost, you mentioned that your company will not pay for your training - time to get a new job!
Your company has a moral and ethical obligation to see to it that you work safely - never forget that!
I understand that jobs are sometimes hard to come by. However, rather you sitting at the dinner table each night with your family without a job, than them attempting to live without you - just because you work for a company that doesn't care.
Write your supervisor - the person who is responsible for your safety while on the job - a letter stating that you are not adequately trained to safely service, maintain, and troubleshoot the company's hydraulic systems. Ask for a written reply. Keep a copy in your personal files. When you get injured, or worse, killed, it will help you and/or your family take away, what appears to be your company's most precious asset - their money!
You mentioned that you will be attending some type of troubleshooting training. Be aware that most schools teach incorrect and unsafe troubleshooting procedures. If the instructor ever shows a procedure in which a transmssion line - from any component - is open while observing leakage flowing/blasting to atmosphere, leave the classroom!
Finally, I did not intervene in your troubleshooting problem with the intention of "selling" my workshops.
However, if you have a strong desire to learn how to troubleshoot hydraulic components properly, and more importantly, safely, and your company is too stingy to part with the money you help it earn, I will be glad to send you a complimentary seat in a future workshop. I don't do very many workshops any more. However, when I do they are mainly in Salt Lake City, Utah. If things are tight at home, I am sure we can make a plan to get you and your wife, an air ticket and a hotel room.
In the meantime, if you send me your address, I will forward you a complimentary copy of my troubleshooting book.
By the way, it is the only hydraulic component troubleshooting book in circulation that does not EVER recommend that you remove a line and "test" by discharging oil to atmosphere.
Don't put your address on this site. You can send me an e-mail at info@fluidpowersafety.com
Until you are properly trained tell your supervisor to either pass the job on to someone else in the company, or hire an outside person to do the job.
You might also tell your supervisor to spend a few minutes reading hydraulic related accidents on my website www.fluidpowersafety.com ost of which were caused by people working on hydraulics by trial-and-error.
Please, also remind your supervisor that if you wanted to take risk, and suffer injury and possible death, you would have joined the army!!!
Respectfully,
Rory S. McLaren
Director
Fluid Power Safety Institute
 
Posts: 4 | Registered: 07 March 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Darcy
posted Hide Post
quote:
Rory

I will send you a e-mail thanks very much for your offer I want to learn and would really like to do this next year about this time when you offer a workshop. I want to learn the proper ways to do this.

Thanks
 
Posts: 12 | Location: Washington state | Registered: 04 March 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bernoulli
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I speant some time with Rory at the last IFPE show. He is passionate about safety and knows what he is talking about. I have been in hydraulics for 17 years and have received training in troubleshooting and handling hydraulics and I still recognize that I should review and thoroughly understand any system before I try to operate it, trouble shoot it, take it apart, etc. It is as dangerous as Rory says! Be smart - get the training!
 
Posts: 3 | Location: Mentor, Ohio | Registered: 13 January 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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