Already I have 3DOF simulator based in hydraulic power unit, hydraulic flow is controlled by proportional valve ATOS operated +24v, input signal +/-10vDC
- To controlling the motion base I try connect extended USB –interface board K8061 http://www.velleman.eu/ot/en/product/view/?id=364910 but problem is hydraulic valve not response for control voltage from board K8061 analog output +/-10vDC (there is some noise from proportional valve after connection board)
-where is problem? What kind of signal must to be aside from +/- 10vDC? Frequency (Hz), currency (A) etc…

Let's just try the blindingly obvious ..you have got a 24v supply to the valve driver as well as the 0-10v reference signal?

http://pdf.directindustry.com/...s/5319-94784-_2.html

Regards Woody

Thanks 100-x !
I connect all correct following by diagram “7-pin connection”:
Pin "A" "+ 24vDC"
Pin "B" "0 vDC" & GND
Pin "D" "+ Signal"
Pin "E" "– Signal" & GND
I don’t know correct number of proportional valve because it’s scratched, and MONITOR pin “C” and “F” is not connected by manufacturer of simulator, what next steep I have to do?

This is an electrical problem not hydraulic or motion control. It is probably causes by poor wiring practices.

Woodygb, the velleman USB card is sending a -10 to +10 volt control signal to the Atos valve. The Atos valve should have OBE, on board electronics, because the Velleman card does output enough current/power to make the valve move so the OBE is needed to amplify the voltage to current. This is common as it takes a lot of current, 2 to 3 amps, to move the spool and hold it against the flow forces and you don't want that kind of current in the controlller.

My recommendation is that the USB board have its own 24 volt power supply that is separate from the valve power supply, make sure the valve power supply and Velleman power supply are grounded but the differential signal from the Velleman to valve are not.

Woodygb, it is common to have a 0 volt command and at 24 volt supply for valves now. I know the diagram you showed has a -15 volts to +15 volts but that is old technology. The new valve drivers take the 0 to 24 and convert the power to -15 to 0 to +15 volts using DC-DC converters. The valve control signal is a low current voltage -10 to +10 volts.

I just saw Mirage's post. Normally bit B and E are not grounded because the signal is supposed to be differential. You have lost your noise immunity.

Hi Peter,

I did realise all the points you made... but missed the 15v reference in the linked pdf.
I've spent a fair ammount of time in the past "playing" with PWM motor speed controllers.

Mirage ..Peter does this sort of thing everyday.

Follow his advice.

USB board to have its own 24 volt power supply

Pin "A" + 24vDC of Valve power supply
Pin "B" GND of Valve 24v power supply
Pin "D" "+ Signal"
Pin "E" "– Signal"

Regards Woody

Thanks Peter Nachtwey& Woody for helping to success my project !
I try to connect by opposite connection:
Valve positive “+ INPUT”=>“GND” k8061 board
Valve negative “- INPUT”=>“+10vDC” k8061 board
Motion base have little affect, theoretically if connecting another “+10V” pins to the “GND” and separate all wiring connection by diode bridges, by software you can give order change the direction for Analog outputs +/-10V?!
Also I try to connect valve to standards +5v & +9v but platform not have any response, how I can run the valve?

Best regards Den

quote:

Also I try to connect valve to standards +5v & +9v but platform not have any response, how I can run the valve?

It sounds like there is something wrong with the valve if it won't respond to a voltage signal. It could be you have already burnt out something due to mis-wiring. Swapping the wires as you did can be harmful if the -input on the valve isn't floating. If yo left it connected to ground the electronics could be damage. If you look at the PDF file that Woodygb posted a link to you should see there is a monitor output. This tell you the position of the spool. If you have your system working correctly the position of the spool should be about the same as the input signal to the valve. You should have a multimeter or scope.

Mirage, do you know how to write 3DOF code? That is a big undertaking for a hobbiest.

I think problem is current voltage set by factory default 4-20mA and need to change from 20mA to +/-10vDC, there must be some kind of jumpers ?! or some optionally settings, check the attached file plz.

You can get -10 to +10 volt to 4-20ma to converters. Process people use this 4-20ma all the time and a converter is required to convert -10 to + 10 volt to 4-20ma.

Pardon my newbieness on electronics/electrical ...

I just want to ask question...

With the controller/PC too far from the valve, is there a need to change the input signal from 4-20 mA to +-10V? Can a +-10V would still be the same at the PD regulator if the input wiring is very long? Can you measure the command signal(volts) to the valve? Would it be the same as the command voltage(stable) that you program into the PC?

I guess the valve has an "option l" where a 4-20 mA Input is the best option. I don't know about noise in electronic/electrical system but it seems like it occurs more in a voltage signal?

quote:

With the controller/PC too far from the valve, is there a need to change the input signal from 4-20 mA to +-10V?

If the valve is far away it is best to use current instead of voltage because current more is more noise immune. Also 4-20ma has a failure mode. If the valve sees no current it knows the control signal has been lost and should should close or open depending on what is safe.

quote:

Can a +-10V would still be the same at the PD regulator if the input wiring is very long?

If the wiring is long there will be voltage losses.

quote:

Can you measure the command signal(volts) to the valve?

Yes, use a multimeter.

quote:

Would it be the same as the command voltage(stable) that you program into the PC?

It should be close

quote:

I guess the valve has an "option l" where a 4-20 mA Input is the best option. I don't know about noise in electronic/electrical system but it seems like it occurs more in a voltage signal?

Yes.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Nachtwey:
You can get -10 to +10 volt to 4-20ma to converters. Process people use this 4-20ma all the time and a converter is required to convert -10 to + 10 volt to 4-20ma.

Thanks for helping and advising !
I open and check the proportional valve and now I have complete idea about proportional valves I find why proportional valve not work and where is problem exactly (plz. check the attached file), by finally from 3-valve I fix two, one of them till now not working, there is red LED “FAULT PRESENCE” lighting, can you give me some advice: - how to fix this problem plz.

Best regards Den.

By finally I planning make self-reacting motion base (with some “motion rules” switch) , for example if I run NFS-series game motion base move by “on ground” rules, if I run MFS-game, base EASY-switched to the flying rules ;-)
Keeping in mind this idea I looking some solution how to better connect feedback signal from position sensors: -directly to proportional valve or through k8061? in first position give us just "safety mood" motion, second option give us maximum option (eg. craft position) but problem is how to take this signal from K8061 in PC ? It’s need develop some special software to k8061? Or I can find more EASY solution?
- also now I need some information about position sensor feedback setup and configuration, when platform start run safe, next level is connecting manual control devices and make loop: joystick=>motion base=>position sensors=>motion base, for example if I use three analog inputs for position sensors, we have another five analog inputs and Logitech wireless joystick, and now very important question:
a) how connect joystick for controlling motion base directly ?
b) how make better and correct connection "Joystic+PC<=>motion base+position sensors" ?
c) ... or I need for it some another devices or software?
d) Where I can find some technical information how to connect “joystick-->Motion base->position sensors->motion base”


Best regards Den.

You should have check all that before asking questions

quote:

Originally posted by Mirage:
can you give me some advice: - how to fix this problem plz.

You need to read the documentation to find out what things can cause the fault.

quote:

Originally posted by Mirage:
Keeping in mind this idea I looking some solution how to better connect feedback signal from position sensors: -directly to proportional valve or through k8061? in first position give us just "safety mood" motion, second option give us maximum option (eg. craft position) but problem is how to take this signal from K8061 in PC ? It’s need develop some special software to k8061? Or I can find more EASY solution?

Do you have lots of money?

You need to find someone that has done this before for or take a training class. What you want to learn is way too much for a forum.

You should find something easier to do. What you want to do is develop a very sophisticated hydraulic motion controller.
You need to be able to do a lot of vector math like this:
http://www.deltamotion.com/pet...a/3D%20Rotation.html
to rotate 3D vectors. This is just a small part of what you need to know mathematically.

Finally, it is obvious your system will not be safe.

quote:

Do you have lots of money?

For this project already I paid more than 5000EURO and after that understand this project need some think more than money

quote:

You need to find someone that has done this before for or take a training class. What you want to learn is way too much for a forum. You should find something easier to do. What you want to do is develop a very sophisticated hydraulic motion controller.

http://www.simprojects.nl/Interfacing_1.htm

quote:

You need to be able to do a lot of vector math like this:
http://www.deltamotion.com/pet...a/3D%20Rotation.html
to rotate 3D vectors. This is just a small part of what you need to know mathematically.

- Wow, I need some time to understand this formulas

quote:

Finally, it is obvious your system will not be safe.

-why ? where is soft point I have to concentrate ?

P.S.I hope this information can be useful for this topic ?
http://www.deltamotion.com/products/acc/index.php

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mirage,